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Notch or detent feeling in steering

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(@Peter Kurzenhauser)
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In the last 100 miles the steering in my 1953 Hornet has developed a strong feeling of a notch or detent on-center. Steering is not loose. Anyone know what this is?


 
Posted : 05/10/2020 11:13 am
(@obermeier)
Posts: 595
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Make sure the drag link joints are tight. It could be the ball is jumping up and down in the joint. Also check lubricant level. Get someone to rark the steering wheel back forth real hard and inspect all the joints, and the centre point arm.


 
Posted : 05/10/2020 8:20 pm
(@Peter Kurzenhauser)
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Joints are tight. No discernible play in center pivot. I wanted to get it up on a Jack today and start troubleshooting but didn’t have time so I’ll have to do that tomorrow. I did check the steering box for lubricant and did not see any, so I added about a cup of gear oil to get it up near the fill plug. I drove it about 20 miles after filling with oil and it didn’t make any difference.

I’ll troubleshoot more tomorrow and post my findings.


 
Posted : 05/10/2020 8:54 pm
(@pfeifer)
Posts: 724
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The gear box takes a semi fluid type of grease. John Deere corn head grease is often used.
If it has been run without lubrication for long, the worm gear is probably galled and the steering box will need rebuilding or swapped out. (This is a major issue in the swb models as they use a different steering box).
https://www.midweststeering.com/


 
Posted : 06/10/2020 12:22 am
(@Peter Kurzenhauser)
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Kerry, thanks for the reply. After I put a cup of hypoid gear oil in it, I figured it was likely the worm and or quadrant developed flat spots. But, I would expect to feel that over a wider range of movement than the 2” or so of steering wheel movement. It has a very definite “detent” feeling. I’m also wondering if something got too tight and I’m feeling the gear teeth binding.

Anyway, out to the shop now to jack it up. I’ll report findings.


 
Posted : 06/10/2020 6:01 am
(@obermeier)
Posts: 595
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Peter, this type of steering gear is worm and roller, so it is unlikely to be a pocket worn in the worm itself, but it could be. The most likely thing, if the box has been run dry is that the roller bearing cup has a pocket worn in it. I had this with my Jet many years ago. I replaced the entire steering box with a good one, and have been meticulously checking the lubricant level every time I grease the car since then. However, there is no easy way to check this apart from removing and dismantling.


 
Posted : 06/10/2020 1:44 pm
(@Peter Kurzenhauser)
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I might as well ask: are the steering gearboxes the same for all stepdowns? Or are they specific to the model or year? Does anyone have a good one for sale?


 
Posted : 07/10/2020 7:47 pm
(@pfeifer)
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Long wheel base models (super six, commodore, hornet) are the same. Short wheelbase models (pacemaker and wasp) have a different box and they are more prone to galling from lack of lubrication.
Someone in times past, converted a lwb box over to a swb model, but I don't have the info on that conversion.


 
Posted : 07/10/2020 9:03 pm
(@Peter Kurzenhauser)
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Geoff and Kerry: I posted an update last night, but it didn’t post onthe forum, so I’ll try again.

I jacked up the car the other night to check for play in the steering linkage. The tie rods, steering knuckle, reach rod all appear tight. I did discover a small amount of up-and-down play in the center pivot (the arm that connects the tie rods moves up and down about 1/8” when I push/pull on the wheels. I’ll get around to that at some future point, but it doesn’t appear to bother the steering stability. The “detent” feel on center is there whether the wheels are on the ground or up in the air, so I really think it’s in the steering gearbox. I tried to remove the pitman arm from the gearbox, to isolate the box, but it was stuck on pretty hard, so I need to get the proper puller. However it is clear that the box seal is leaking, as the oil I had added was dripping out around the seal, so it’s a pretty safe bet that it was dry, and consequently it got internally damaged.

Then I got into another fix, because I noticed that the left front brake hose had a groove worn into the rubber from rubbing against the tire. Someone had installed an incorrect hose that was too long. I had a replacement hose to install so I started that.

Well, you would think that would be easy, but my replacement hose had a hex shape on the inside of the groove where the chassis clip fits, whereas, the bracket on the frame has a round hole, so I had to file off the edges of the hex to fit the round hole. Got that installed.

THEN, speaking of rounding off corners, I find that the brake fluid bleeder screw is seized, and in trying to get it out, I completed the job of rounding off the corners of the head that someone had previously started. I finally got it out using a bolt extractor and bled the left brake (add new brake bleeder screws to my parts list). By then it was past midnight.

Don’t ya just love workin’ on old cars?

I’ll get back to the steering box and post my results tomorrow.


 
Posted : 08/10/2020 11:54 am
(@obermeier)
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Murphy's law: "Nothing is ever as easy as it appears".


 
Posted : 08/10/2020 12:25 pm
(@pfeifer)
Posts: 724
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The very reason I quit giving job quotes and work only by the hour. Rusted bolts, prier work that has to be re-done correctly, all sorts of issues you run into working on antique vehicles.


 
Posted : 08/10/2020 10:13 pm
(@Peter Kurzenhauser)
Posts: 0
Topic starter
 

And picking from a parallel thread, Murphy absolutely loves old wiring...


 
Posted : 09/10/2020 9:53 am
(@Peter Kurzenhauser)
Posts: 0
Topic starter
 

I got the pitman arm off of the steering box today. With the rest of the steering linkage disconnected, turning the steering wheel still has the feel of a firm detent/notch on center, but nowhere off center. Without the friction of the linkage and wheels, I can notice the feel of the steering is not completely smooth. If I start on center, and rotate the steering wheel to the right, once I move the wheel about one inch, it comes out of the notch and has some mild friction to about 3/4 turn. The friction decreases as I get further away from center and is pretty much free after 3/4 turn. I get the same characteristics turning to the left

Weird. Any further suggestions? My next step is to disconnect the steering shaft from the box and make sure there isn’t something in the steering column that is causing the notch and friction.

Update: I just pulled the steering wheel off and it appears that the steering shaft goes directly from the steering wheel down into the steering gearbox. I looked around online, and the pictures show it that way.

SO, it looks like I have to pull the whole thing out from under the car.

Are there any adjustment screws or bolts I could twiddle to loosen up the box?


 
Posted : 11/10/2020 2:59 pm
(@obermeier)
Posts: 595
Honorable Member Registered
 

Yes, remove the cap from the adjuster, take off the lock washer and try turning the screw out. It could be that the mesh is too tight. You need to have the pitman arm on so you can detect the looseness. Set the box in the position of least play and turn the adjustment out until you can feel discernible movement of the pitman arm, and then turn It back until there is no movement, and see how it feels as you go right through the left and right positions. Good luck,


 
Posted : 11/10/2020 5:26 pm
(@adamb)
Posts: 320
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Posted : 11/10/2020 5:30 pm
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