Discussion moved to the "Hudson" forum category.

There isn't a bolt on replacement that I'm aware of. It would be great if there was, but None. Just remove your starter, send it in to a reliable electrical rebuilder for 12V conversion. Once you get it back, don't turn the Bendix while setting on the bench, if they replaced it. I've found the replacement style allows it to over-travel while not installed. Not the end of the world, just requires extra work.

Thank you. I will forward this info on.

I contacted Snap Rebuilders. in Salt Lake City, UT. They built a modern small starter for my 51 Hornet with auto trans. Works great. Phone # 801-467-2902 As I recall, I talked to a guy named Terry. Great service, reasonable price.

Thank you.

I love running a 6 volt starter on 12 Volts {but it is really only seeing 8-9 volts} !! Certainly the starter has to be in good condition and solenoid should be 12 volts. And bendix/ starter ring mesh needs to be right-on !!! The car should start in about 3 seconds with it; mine does. How many remember the Orpin Switch by Automatic Battery Co of Amer.? Start on 12 volts and run on 6 volts. [They were also made to run 12 volt starters with 24 volts for military.]
The smart folks installed it back in the day. Basically, it uses 2-6 volt batteries and switches them from parallel to series for the starter( or with a special 12 V battery with taps in the inner 2 cells. I use one on my 1931 Franklin. Go to AACA forums and folks are continuing to search for them; eBay is about the only place. Hudson folks should also look for them. You certainly can't grind the starter for minutes at a time or jam the bendix and continue to start.
BUT, 12 volts for a 6 volt starter is the best way to go--start twice as fast. Problem occurs when there are other contributing problems; same with other innovations.
Edit:: Each to his own; my starter may fail next week,BUT, key is having everything else correct. My car starts in less than 2-3 seconds, hot or cold. And that also means: elec pump to prime !!!
Photo shows Orpin Switch, FYI.

My 1953 Hornet quit starting last week. I hit the key and it just spun without engaging the Bendix gear. Great, just when two of my other cars were hard down. I removed the starter and saw that the nose of the starter housing--the part that sticks into the tranny housing and holds the bronze bushing at the end of the Bendix--had cracked off. So it's not rebuildable.

My car was converted to 12 volts with an alternator. I think the existing starter is the original 6 volt unit. The ID plate says "Made in Hudson, USA, by the Electric Autolite Co. Toledo, Ohio."

I like the idea of a lighter more compact starter off a modern car, that was designed for 12 volts, and which I can service or replace at the local shop or auto parts store. Since the last posting in this thread a year ago, has anyone found a bolt-in replacement? Or should I to go to Snap Rebuilders, as recommended by Dennis Curey? How long did that take? If that will take several weeks, what else can I do to get back on the road faster?

Thanks, Pete K

Follow up: I called Terry at Snap Rebuilders, per Dennis’ recommendation to get a modern more compact and lighter 12V starter. He said it would take a week to put one together, then ship. So I should have it in about 1.5-2 weeks. I’ll post details after I get it installed.

Terry also said the cracking of the nose of the housing a common failure. So I hypothesize that running 12V through a 6V starter may cause or contribute to the failure. 12V should produce twice the torque and thus twice the force on that part. You can see in the attached picture where it cracked off.

And I might try to JB Weld it together and see if I can get a few more starts out of it before the new starter arrives.

Use very small starter cable when using 6 V starter on 12 V {you want a voltage drop}. Definitely not a 6 V cable; should see around 8 V on starter when starting. Edit: certainly not smaller than #6. But if It takes longer than 5 seconds to start, don't go 'small"

Richard, thanks for the reply. I’m not convinced that using a thinner wire is a good solution either. Let me reach back into my general knowledge of electricity and automotive 12v systems.

In a typical 12V car with a V8 engine, the voltage to the starter is in the range of 10V while cranking. It may drop to less than 9V if very cold, or battery isn’t at full capacity, etc. And the current is in the range of 80A. For a 6V system, you can adjust those numbers by a factor of 2 (V=IR, so half the volts and twice the amps). Realistically, I doubt a 6V starter cranking a low compression 6-cylinder engine draws 160A, and a I doubt a typical 6V battery could deliver that much current for very long, but let’s estimate the 6V starting current in the range of 100- 120A. That’s a ton of current, which is why the cables to the starter are so thick.

If you put 12V through that starter (10V after voltage drops), you will double the current, that is, more than 200 amps, which isn’t good for the starter, so it makes a lot of sense to try to limit that current by dropping the voltage somehow, ideally by close to half.

If you use a thinner cable to resist that voltage, it will need to provide enough resistance to dissipate 100A at 6V, or about 600watts of heat (P=IV). This in turn requires the wire to provide as much resistance as the starter, about 0.06 Ohms. I don’t know Offhand what the resistance per length of copper wire is (and I’m too lazy to look that up this morning), but I’ll guess that you would be looking at something like 14 gauge wire, like Romex house wire, in order to get the resistance that high. And that would overheat pretty quickly and melt the insulation if you had to crank for more than a couple seconds.

If you then think, OK, I’ll just use thicker wire to prevent overheating, you end up with more current to the starter, which is what you tried to avoid in the first place. There’s a reason the cables to starters are as thick as they are—to take the current of extended cranking on a cold morning when he car doesn’t want to start easily.

Although I’m new to the Hudson brand, I expect they work the same as other old cars i’ve owned. So I also expect that running 12V through a 6V starter will eventually cause shorter starter life, or increased wear or failure of components, like I experienced.

That’s why I decided to spend several hundred dollars for a real 12V starter.

I used to get a note with some rebuilt starters that said No Waranty if the distributor cap was not replaced because of crossfire would break the starter housing. Apparently carbon traces would cause it to kick back and brake the housing.

[quote="Peter Kurzenhauser" post=26246]Richard, thanks for the reply. I’m not convinced that using a thinner wire is a good solution either. Let me reach back into my general knowledge of electricity and automotive 12v systems.

In a typical 12V car with a V8 engine, the voltage to the starter is in the range of 10V while cranking. It may drop to less than 9V if very cold, or battery isn’t at full capacity, etc. And the current is in the range of 80A. For a 6V system, you can adjust those numbers by a factor of 2 (V=IR, so half the volts and twice the amps). Realistically, I doubt a 6V starter cranking a low compression 6-cylinder engine draws 160A, and a I doubt a typical 6V battery could deliver that much current for very long, but let’s estimate the 6V starting current in the range of 100- 120A. That’s a ton of current, which is why the cables to the starter are so thick.

If you put 12V through that starter (10V after voltage drops), you will double the current, that is, more than 200 amps, which isn’t good for the starter, so it makes a lot of sense to try to limit that current by dropping the voltage somehow, ideally by close to half.

If you use a thinner cable to resist that voltage, it will need to provide enough resistance to dissipate 100A at 6V, or about 600watts of heat (P=IV). This in turn requires the wire to provide as much resistance as the starter, about 0.06 Ohms. I don’t know Offhand what the resistance per length of copper wire is (and I’m too lazy to look that up this morning), but I’ll guess that you would be looking at something like 14 gauge wire, like Romex house wire, in order to get the resistance that high. And that would overheat pretty quickly and melt the insulation if you had to crank for more than a couple seconds.

If you then think, OK, I’ll just use thicker wire to prevent overheating, you end up with more current to the starter, which is what you tried to avoid in the first place. There’s a reason the cables to starters are as thick as they are—to take the current of extended cranking on a cold morning when he car doesn’t want to start easily.

Although I’m new to the Hudson brand, I expect they work the same as other old cars i’ve owned. So I also expect that running 12V through a 6V starter will eventually cause shorter starter life, or increased wear or failure of components, like I experienced.

That’s why I decided to spend several hundred dollars for a real 12V starter.

This is a really interesting point, in terms of ballparking voltages and amperages in starting circuits. I have a 1953 Kaiser that has intermittent hard-starting issues, and this gives me more to consider in how to approach it. Thanks for the information, and sorry I have no insight on the actual topic of the thread!

John, does your Kaiser still have a 6V system? Good clean tight connections are even more important for 6V systems. Either way, make sure you have good clean metal to metal connections on the battery and the starter, and between the starter case and the engine block or transmission housing, AND the ground cables from the engine block to the chassis AND back to the ground cable to battery. You probably already know this, but let me emphasize it again anyway: make SURE you have a proven good battery.

In my experience with running the 6v starter on 12v, the starter motor will handle it, except maybe with a prolonged crank time. The main issue is with the way the Bendix slams into the flywheel gear. That quickly damages both the pinion gear and the flywheel gear. Definitely best to get the starter motor converted for 12v use.