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6 cyl timing mark

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(@Dan Leone)
Posts: 0
Topic starter
 

Started teaing down the 212 6cyl from my 36 Terraplane. Noticed something strange with the timing mark (star stamped on fly wheel). With the head off it is easy to see when piston #1 is TDC, but the timing mark is nowhere near the pointer. When I align the mark to the pointer piston # 4 is at TDC. Am i missing something here?


 
Posted : 12/02/2018 2:45 pm
(@Glenn Hebblethwaite)
Posts: 0
 


The Star is for lining up the clutch fluid filler to the bottom once removed to drain the fluid.
The timing marks are lines marked with a "6" or "8" (Might have to clean up the flywheel to see them). See the attached picture.


 
Posted : 12/02/2018 4:58 pm
(@dafast)
Posts: 352
Honorable Member Registered
 

You maybe on exhaust stroke. Turn it over again until the #1 is at top and timing marks line up.


 
Posted : 13/02/2018 1:10 am
(@Dan Leone)
Posts: 0
Topic starter
 

Yep, that's what i was missing! rust over the timing mark, saw the star and assumed that was the timing mark. Thanks Glenn. While I'm at it, another question. The exhaust diverter inside the exhaust manifold, mine of course is rusted solid. Is there a spring or bimetal coil inside that controls the movement of the damper? Would it be ok if i could force it open and just leave it there? I'm guessing it closes to force exhaust thru intake in cold weather?


 
Posted : 13/02/2018 10:59 am
(@Glenn Hebblethwaite)
Posts: 0
 

There are 2 types Dan. One is a fixed position version where you loosen the 2 nuts holding the clamp and rotate it to the Summer/Mid/Winter positions and tighten it up again. Most people would leave this in the Summer position. The other type is automatic and uses a bi-metallic spring on the outside to control the butterfly on the inside. Most people remove this system altogether and block up the holes left or force it in the open position.


 
Posted : 13/02/2018 1:40 pm
(@Dan Leone)
Posts: 0
Topic starter
 

Yeah, that makes sense. I think I have the fixed one . It has the bar across it to lock it in place. The only problem is I think its in the closed or winter position and rusted solid. Oh well, I'll soak it in penetrating oil and see if I can free it up. I see an exhaust manifold on ebay for a 37 Terraplane. Should be the same? Though its probably froze up too!


 
Posted : 13/02/2018 5:04 pm
(@Glenn Hebblethwaite)
Posts: 0
 

You may end up breaking the studs and having to install some new ones but you don't want it to be in the winter position so its worth the effort. Take a close look at the 37 manifold. Somewhere around then or 38 they went to a bigger one. When comparing them, the differences are pretty obvious with bigger exhaust ports and look more "chunky".


 
Posted : 13/02/2018 5:20 pm
(@Dan Leone)
Posts: 0
Topic starter
 

Yeah, checked the one on ebay closely. It has larger oval ports where as mine are round. Must have changed in 37. Soaked mine in penatrating fluid for several days but still can't free the butterfly valve. Afraid of breaking the manifold!


 
Posted : 16/02/2018 10:16 am
(@ta2repas)
Posts: 40
Trusted Member Registered
 

Hey Dan,
I had to soak mine in a 50 50 mix of acetone and trans fluid for several days to get it loose. But it worked!
Jeff


 
Posted : 17/02/2018 4:19 am
(@dlm31)
Posts: 960
Noble Member Registered
 

Dan, we always remove these. We have not had much luck getting them to seal afterwards. Some manifolds are better than others, so use common sense when diagnosing what direction to go. If you have already taken it apart, go have it media blasted , simply mount the flap in the bench vise and break it off the outside flange you are keeping to re-mount on the manifold. Using a block of wood to drive against the flange to break. It is cast iron and should break relatively easy. With everything cleaned, take it to someone that can braze it back in place. Usually they have deteriorated so much that after you have cleaned up the mating flange on the manifold and the heat riser itself, a standard round gasket, or even 2,3,4 gaskets will not be enough to seal it. They all seem to be badly warped at the least. I would recommend removing the exhaust manifold. Once you have removed it, look inside the exhaust ports. You can see the heat riser, as pointed out, usually in the winter position. This style of heat riser does NOT go all the way through the manifold and is cast as one piece. The bar that goes across the outside is what holds it completely in place. We take a long metal rod, stick it through the ports, strike the flap with the hammer and break it off. I know this sounds like a primitive way to do this, but the flap breaks off the flange relatively easy. If the flap breaks off completely in one piece, pin the flap inside the ports again and break it again, trying to make it break in the middle or something close.. The pieces should just fall out . Something else that is usually a real concern when the heat riser has been in the closed position for a long time and the engine has been ran for a long time in that position, is the 6 bolts that hold the manifold down to the block get badly corroded. The heat that is created from the h/riser being closed causes other bad problems. There are several tel-tel signs your heat riser is a real problem, a big one is all the paint blistering off the intake manifold around the carb area. This is of course by design when the heat riser is in the closed position, the exhaust is routed around the intake at the carb base. When new or still somewhat being used as an everyday car it was being driven in the colder times and/or winter. Most of all our Hudsons are not being driven in the cold weather and need no extra heat, thus needing NO heat riser. Unleaded fuel also adds much greater percentage of unwanted heat! We have also found through the years, a closed heat riser on splasher engines is almost certain causing running issues. Since we drive our cars on nice,smooth roads for the most part, we are traveling at faster speeds and higher RPM's. The exhaust needs to flow smooth, not restricted, and at higher RPM's with the heat riser closed, the exhaust has/is being restricted as it is diverted around the intake manifold. That extra exhaust pressure in the rear 3-[6 cyl.] or 4 cylinders-[8 cyl.] causes the studs to break off all by their-self, and again, cause the exhaust manifold gaskets to blow out. The added extra pressure also makes the rear 3-4 spark plugs to foul, turn black,mis-fire,... , also can cause excessive blow-by in the engine because of this pressure. That extra pressure is blowing passed the piston rings, again causing numerous concerns and problems. I know this was a lot of info to take in, but we see so many engines that have been damaged, simply because the heat riser was in the closed position I felt it was worth the time! I hope this helps.


 
Posted : 20/02/2018 5:13 am
(@Dan Leone)
Posts: 0
Topic starter
 

Hi Doug, I have the manifold off as a matter of fact I have the engine out of the car and stripped down getting it ready to send to a machine shop for a rebuild. All but the two end manifold studs broke off taking it apart, as I figured they would. lol. Are you saying just leave the adjustment disc thats rusted solid as is and break off the butterfly flap inside the manifold?


 
Posted : 21/02/2018 1:32 pm
(@dlm31)
Posts: 960
Noble Member Registered
 

Yes, don't disturb the plate or try removing the nuts on the 2 studs. So once you have the flap broken off, try to break it again so the 2,3,4 pieces will fall out.
Something else you have to keep in mind when restoring the manifolds. The intake and exhaust are bolted together,so If you cut or plain the exh.manifold, this obviously lowers the bolts holes where the 2 manifolds come together, so make sure the 3/8's-16 bolts still line up as you install the intake. Those holes are a larger hole on the int.manifold for this reason. Lots of times, the area between the int.and exh.has been etched or corroded away and have poor mating surfaces. If you cut either one of these surfaces to clean them up, it will add more space between the two and cause a poor sealing surface, not allowing them to come together. The gasket that goes between them is very thin to begin with, and the added corrosion and/or deterioration invites an exhaust leak. We always use high temp ULTRA-silicone when assembling them back together. We make sure they fit and align properly before final assembly.


 
Posted : 22/02/2018 2:42 am

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