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1953 Hudson Hornet rear axle with removable cover

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(@spring)
Posts: 4
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The threads on the end of my right axle are stripped. I obtained a used axle that has the proper spline and is approximately the same length (29 inches) as the original axle. When I installed it in my car it has about 1/8th inch of play with no shims. Upon further inspection, the spline length on the original axle was 2 inches while the spline length on the new/used axle is 1 - 11/16 inches. Originally there was about 1/8th inch of shims.

My questions:
1. Could someone have shortened the spline length for some reason?
2. Are the left and right axles the same length?
3. Can I braze a 3/16" x 1" hardened disk on the splined end of the axle to lengthen it so I can get the proper clearance?
4. Can the axle be saved?

Thank you
Ed Lagergren
President NW HET
Elma, WA


 
Posted : 05/07/2017 8:45 am
(@dlm31)
Posts: 960
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Ed, a couple of things to check, how are you measuring the length?. Are you measuring from where the bearing is located on the inside. Can you see where there was a button on the end of the replacement axle?, is it worn off, is the bearing pressed on the axle all the way ,seated against the machined flange?. You also need to check the bearing race number. Is it 25820 or 25821 ?. Even though these work the same, they are a different width, and require some shim adjustment.
I am not sure if the axles are different side to side on a Spicer/Dana axle. Do you have a parts book, and does it describe the same?. Hope this helps


 
Posted : 06/07/2017 2:18 am
(@spring)
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Doug,
Thanks for your response. You probably don't remember, but I met you and your father along with John Pontius in Spokane in the lounge on the first night at my first HET event. Might as well start at the top!!! Thanks for your hospitality!

Anyway, back to the axle. I made a few more measurements and figured out the following:

1. My existing axle was 29 inches long. I did not know until I got the new/used axle that the threads had been shortened 1/8th of an inch. The replacement axle was shortened on the spline end 5/16th inch. They both measure about 29 inches??

2. By taking the unaltered parts of both axles, I have determined that the proper length of the right side axle should be: 29-3/16 inch. This is made up of three measurements 1) spline end to inside bearing race, 24-1/16 inch, 2) the bearing race, 1 inch , and 3) the outside bearing race to the end of the threads, 4-1/8 inches.

3. My car had 4 shims totaling 0,1055 inches. So an axle could measure a little less from the spline end to the inner bearing race and use less shims.

4. The spline should measure 2 inches. The threads should measure 1-1/8 inches.

5. I do not know if both axles are the same. I do not have a parts book. ( I miss having access to Frank Hughes' knowledge and library.)

6. With respect to the bearings, the existing bearing is a Bower 25877 with a Bower 25821 outer race. The new/used has a Timken 25877 and I will use the existing Bower 25821. I believe this will be OK. The shims may be different, like you say, because of the different axle measurement from end of spline to bearing..

7. I am measuring from the end of the splined end to the inside bearing race. The bearing is seated all the way on the machined flange.

8. Neither axle has what you describe as a button on the end. The old axle splined end looks like it was made that way. It does have a polished end. The new/used axle looks like the splined end was cut off or wore off. It also has a polished end. One of my thoughts is to silver braze a 3/16 inch x 1 inch disk on the splined end to get to the proper length of 24-1/16 inches.

At this point I have three choices: !) Braze on the disk, 2) get a new axle or 3) repair the threads on the existing axle. This will require welding to build up the threads, turning to 3/4 inch and rethreading, not likely. ( Jim Harmon would have had a number of axles.)

Thanks again for your help.
Ed Lagergren
President NW HET

.


 
Posted : 06/07/2017 8:01 am
(@rich-man)
Posts: 290
Reputable Member Registered
 

Spoke to Lester Harris to get on the ball on it. He said he's still not feeling well, but will get on it.


 
Posted : 06/07/2017 1:23 pm
(@obermeier)
Posts: 595
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There are two shafts listed, standard and Severe Usage, but I do not know the differences between them. The new axle shaft I have here for my '53 Hornet has 2" length inner splines, and the over-all length from the inner end to the base of the threads on the end is 28". There is no thrust button on the end.
Geoff


 
Posted : 07/07/2017 6:00 pm
(@Lance Walker)
Posts: 0
 

Goff, The severe usage(racing) axle is a larger diameter axle.


 
Posted : 08/07/2017 6:14 am
(@spring)
Posts: 4
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Topic starter
 

Thank you Geoff and Lance for your help.

Upon further investigation I have found out the following information.

1. Geoff's 28 inch measurement plus the 1-1/8th inch thread length makes the overall length 29-1/8th inches. This corresponds with my calculation based on the two axles I have.
2. Ray Klein suggested I call Mr. Lester Harris. Lester is a neighbor and friend of Ray who has 2 warehouses full of NOS parts and thought he may have a NOS axle. He didn't, but he had a parts book and I learned 1) both left and right axles are the same, 2) he had a NOS axle that I believe measured the same as the 1953 Hornet axle except that the bearing journal measured 1.270 inches and the Hornet axle should measure 1.377 inches. I verified that my axle measured 1.3745 inches. Could the 1.270 axle be the standard axle and the 1.377 inch axle be the severe usage axle? and 3) the Hudson Part No. is 306993. The Foote Part No is 2007. He said Foote was the largest producer of axles. This Part No is for 52 - 54 Hornet and Wasp.
3. Discussion with Al Saffrahn. Al did not recommend any welding on an axle. He recommended turning the threads down to 11/16 inch and rethreading. This would be the same thread as the fromt axle.
4. At this time I have located two possible used axles. The few people I have talked to say these axles are getting rare and do not want to remove an axle from a complete rear end.

Thanks again,
Ed Lagergren
President NW HET

.


 
Posted : 10/07/2017 8:33 pm
(@dlm31)
Posts: 960
Noble Member Registered
 

Ed, the threads and nut stripped are the most common problem with the Spicer/Dana axles. We have seen this many times before. Doug Seals brought us a rear end to build, and it had the threads messed up on one axle. We were going to re-thread like Al recommended, but Doug came up with another replacement. Again, make sure the bearings are seated properly on the flange. Hope to see you in San Diego!


 
Posted : 11/07/2017 2:37 am
(@kevinjets)
Posts: 358
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Better make sure that the spacer block inside the rear is not broken caused by some one hitting the axle on the end instead of hitting the the turn handle on the drum remover. Walt.


 
Posted : 11/07/2017 7:59 am
(@spring)
Posts: 4
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Topic starter
 

I'm back. I found another axle through the WTN. Upon receipt of the axle, I found the axle bearing had been spinning on the axle shaft. It was unusable. I found another axle through the WTN. This time the axle was good. I have now installed it. I was able to set the clearance using Walt's advise. I got lucky and was able to set the clearance with the shims I had. I did remove the rear cover and check my spacer block for cracks. It was OK.

Comments:
1. Nobody throws old parts away. When used parts inventories change hands the new owner does not know what is good and what isn't. I have the same problem. I will just have to recycle my three axles. It costs more to fix them (if that is even possible) than a new/used axle. All three axles were priced at $35 plus shipping. We need to recycle old parts to avoid future confusion.
2. Both used parts dealers cancelled my bill without question when I told them the axle was unusable. Hudson used parts dealers are good people.
3. I had the shims that were on the car but I did not have any 0.003 and 0.005 shims. I wanted to have the thinner shims available when I set the clearance so I could do the process without interruption to find shims. I was able to buy some shim stock from a machine shop and make my own 0.003 and 0.005 shims. Shim stock is not easy to find in auto parts stores. I could make the 0.003 and 0.005 shims by clamping them between the thicker shims and using a file to cut them out and a drill/file for the holes. Making the thicker shims would have been much tougher. I could not find a source for the Dana shims. For my own and others information, Does anybody carry them?


 
Posted : 10/10/2017 7:58 pm

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