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shifting problems

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(@Bill Stanley)
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just purchased a '37 Terraplane P/U - it has been restored and the transmission rebuilt according to the seller. When I shift from first to second and second to third I get gear clash going into each gear. I rode with the owner before i purchased the car and he started out in second gear and was able to shift into third with no gear clash - he said that he had to "double clutch" to avoid gear clash. He appeared to simply let the clutch back in part way between gears and then back out and was able to get into third with no noise. I have tried that - have also tried a full double clutch with the clutch all the way in an a small increase in engine rpm then clutch back out before going into third - no luck. The clutch is adjusted very high - it does not grab until the pedal is almost all the way up - so i don't think there is any question that it is disengaged when the pedal is all the way down to shift. I was under the impression that at least 2nd and 3rd were synchronized on these transmissions - am I wrong about that ? Any input would be appreciated.


 
Posted : 23/04/2017 10:56 pm
(@m-patterson56)
Posts: 452
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That transmission is not synchronized in any gear so double clutching is a must if you want to make smooth, clash-free shifts. If the clutch is adjusted "high" as you say, it should be fully disengaging even with partial pedal depression. At the risk of appearing critical, I think you may just need practice to "get it down". The engine speeds versus road speeds for any given shift, up [i]or[/i] down, must be closely matched for a successful shift. It should become a personal challenge to consistently make those shifts without clash and your transmission will appreciate the development of your skills. Every grind adds metal particles to the oil and contributes to "rounding-off" of the internal clutches eventually leading to the nasty condition of "popping out of gear".
But first, get the clutch adjusted to proper specs. Without sufficient free-play, the throw-out bearing is riding against the release levers continuously, resulting in accelerated bearing wear and risking clutch slippage. If you are not familiar with the Hudson wet clutch set-up, I advise you not to do anything to shorten its life. $$$
Frank


 
Posted : 24/04/2017 2:31 am
(@tallent-r)
Posts: 1825
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Frank is right. Non synchro trans.

But, with a bit of practice you should have little or no grind when UPshifting. If you DO encounter upshift problems after practicing smooth shifts, then something is wrong.

When going from first to second, shift fairly briskly.

When going from second to third, move lever to neutral (keeping clutch pedal depressed), pause for a second, then ease it into third. I usually get a bit of a grind but it is very minor.

1. Yes, you definitely need to make sure the clutch is FULLY engaged when doing shifts, as Frank says. Check clutch adjustment.

2. How's your Hudsonite? Ask former owner when he last changed it. Frankly, I have not changed mine for several years but -- if the former owner hasn't done that recently -- put in a refill. I like Doug Wildrick's brand, it seems to have something in it that prevents chatter.

3. DOWNshifting always requires double-clutching (and frankly, when these cars were new, I'll bet most owners didn't do that much downshifting anyway). Depress clutch and slip into neutral. Let up clutch and punch the accelerator briefly to rev the engine. Immediately depress clutch and shift down. Simultaneously speed up engine

4. Find a thicker transmission lubricant than you find at your local parts store. Call local oil distributor. Currently I have 140-weight GL-4 grade gear oil. Thicker gear oil seems to result in less gear clash.


 
Posted : 24/04/2017 8:41 am
(@obermeier)
Posts: 595
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There is only one way to shift these transmissions, and that is F A S T. Going from low to 2nd, depress the clutch and immediately shift the lever as fast as you possibly can through the gate into second. I'm not talking about car speed, but the speed you move the gear lever! Any pause in neutral will cause clashing. Same from 2nd to top, but perhaps just a little slower as the car warms up. Changing down needs preferable double-clutching - depress clutch, move into neutral, let out clutch blip the throttle, immediately depress clutch and into 2nd. Same for down changing form 2nd to low. The 1934 handbook is the only one that gives instructions on how to do this, although it says to move form top to 2nd as fast as you can once the pedal is depressed. i personally do not favour this method, as it causes wear on the drive dog teeth. Good luck - practice makes perfect!
Geoff


 
Posted : 25/04/2017 10:30 pm
(@dlm31)
Posts: 960
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The book calls these transmissions Semi-syncronized, and really should be called semi-smooth shifting. Some rally grind when shifting, and others shift rather smooth. There is a lot going on in one of these transmissions for being so small!. The babbit is usually missing partly in the 2-3 intermediate gear on most.


 
Posted : 28/04/2017 9:32 am
(@m-patterson56)
Posts: 452
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Although I have driven many vehicles with unsynchronized transmissions without difficulty, I admit to not having any specific experience with the Hudson early units. I learned to drive in a '42 C-6 with an unsynchronized trans, but it was not built that way......it was a feature that it had developed over time/miles. I still double clutch everything out of habit, synchros or not.
I have seen the illustrations in the manuals for that unit and don't see anything that would make it any different than any other "crash box", but I was wrong once.
F.


 
Posted : 28/04/2017 4:53 pm
(@obermeier)
Posts: 595
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Frank, believe me, this is totally different than any other "crash" box, in that it hasa constant mesh 2nd gear, and the shift between 2nd and top is by a drive sleeve, with no synchros. There is a very short distance between the dogs on this sleeve and the notches in the gears, hence the need to shift really fast. Of course the low and reverse gears are straight cut gears, and you shift the actual gears, but again the difference is that the reverse idler is thrown out of mesh during normal operation, and the larger gear for low ratio is actually fixed in position on the top output shaft, and the smaller gear is on the countershaft, and is moved in and out of mesh. Hence there is very little inertia involved with the countershaft and it's gears, and with the constant mesh of the 2nd gear, and of course the very light clutch, very quick gear changes are possible. If you pause, you will get a crunch every time. As Doug points out, the condition of the white metal sleeve, and the thrust washers is crucial to the smooth operation of this transmission. I have rebuilt at least 20 of these over the years, and they are a delight to drive when they are in top condition, but can be challenging when they are loose and worn, and in the hands of an incompetent driver.
Geoff


 
Posted : 28/04/2017 9:47 pm
(@jomoali)
Posts: 429
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Bill,

The transmission in my '35 is in good condition, however I avoid downshifting unless I'm almost stopped, and want to get from 3rd to 2nd. Going down hill, I usually just use the brakes. I feel that brakes are cheaper than transmissions!

Per


 
Posted : 02/05/2017 11:14 am

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