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48-50 Clutch Pedal Effort, Drivemaster/Supermatic

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(@Pat Mescher)
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I've searched the forum for any opinions, thoughts or solutions on this but found none, so here goes.

Does anyone know in pounds force or newtons what the clutch pedal effort of a stepdown would nominally be? My clutch pedal seems very high as compared to other cars of the period. I've installed the clutch overcenter spring and could add more tension to lower the clutch effort, but would like to know what those who have driven the cars and compared think. To me, the pedal effort is noticeably larger than other cars. Perhaps because of the wet clutch spring rates? I'll be measuring the pedal force in the next few days to get an absolute value.

My 50 Commodore includes Supermatic, which means the factory did not install a clutch overcenter spring to lower clutch effort for the driver. My technical conclusion of why this is done has two parts: 1) Hudson had planned and hoped that if customers were going to spend money on Supermatic to get the pseudo automatic function, they typically wouldn't be using the clutch as often as for a pure manual transmission. However, that alone does not seem to warrant the cost savings of an inexpensive spring and mount while incurring the larger force the driver must exert on the clutch pedal. So there must be another reason, which my engineering background led me to: 2) The supermatic system pulls on the clutch pedal via a vacuum actuator which is design to be able to achieve two critical tasks: a) provide sufficient force to disengage and engage the clutch and b) do it smoothly such that gear changes and starts/stops are smooth. So, having an overcenter spring that changes the amount of force being applied once the overcenter angle is reached would cause differences in the rate of clutch engagement and disengagement. My conclusion is the existing overcenter spring caused problems, so the engineers proposed to remove it and the marketing people had no choice but to accept the consequence if they really wanted a near automatic transmission in a Hudson.
Pat


 
Posted : 29/10/2015 4:20 am
(@Glenn Hebblethwaite)
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I'm sure plenty will have something to say about the effort needed to disengage the clutch but there are some interesting articles in the Online Library from the Hudson Experimental Dept. covering amongst other things, the clutch. Mostly, it seems to cover spring forces to engage/disengage from an engineering side. There may be something buried in there you might find interesting. In any case, there is a lot of great info in there from the engineering dept.


 
Posted : 29/10/2015 11:16 am
(@Pat Mescher)
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Glenn, THANK YOU. The group 8 Engineering Test Data did include wonderful plots of clutch beginning and ending engagement forces for multiple cars/years. Indeed for the 50, it shows with and without the pedal overcenter assist spring. I was unaware of the Experimental Data folder here on the site.

ANOTHER GREAT ASPECT OF THE CLUB AND THIS SITE!!!!

Now, to go and measure what I have. Plus, I am still eager to hear what you stepdown owners think.
Pat


 
Posted : 29/10/2015 12:25 pm
(@Pat Mescher)
Posts: 0
Topic starter
 

Thanks to Glenn H, I found engineering data for the clutch pedal force over travel; the experimental data folders are a great example of engineering. Looks like the starting pedal force should be around 31lbs and after some tensioning of the overcenter spring, my 50 is just under that and feels much better.

Any thoughts?
Pat


 
Posted : 02/11/2015 6:23 am

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