Hi all - I've been having three fuel problems that might be all related, so i thought i'd ask the experts. My car is a 1951 Hornet Hollywood. 1) whenever I let the car sit for a week or so between start-ups, it takes a lot of cranking (15 - 30 seconds) before I can see any fuel coming out of the accelerator pump circuit, 2) I have one of those glass bowl fuel filters between my fuel pump and carburetor, and every once in a while (during idle even) I'll see some air introduced into the glass, and 3) I was out for a ride yesterday (~60 deg F) and every once in a while, especially going up a hill, the engine would stumble, as if I was running out of gas, but only for a fraction of a second. I'm thinking that there is an air-leak somewhere in the fuel system, perhaps inside the fuel pump or in one of the connections near the fuel pump (on the inlet side). Is this a common problem? I'm thinking that it's not likely vapor lock because the temperature was so pleasant.yesterday. Also, the fuel filter pump (dual-action) was rebuilt about 5 years ago. Any ideas? Any diagnostics I should run? Thanks all.
I'm guessing that there IS an air leak somewhere in the line between the tank and fuel pump, but of course the best way to troubleshoot this would be to disconnect the line at the inlet to the pump, and install a hose there, that would extend into a small gasoline can. Then see if the car will run any better (or even start up) pulling directly from the can. If it works better that way, you could begin inspecting the metal gas line. Or the problem is within the tank.
Great suggestion. I could do that without too much trouble at all. I did have my fuel take done over about 10 years ago with the plastic coating inside. I guess I should check to see if any of the connections have loosened up, too. Thanks for the idea.
Our Hornet suffered a similar issue. It would basically run out of fuel under heavy load (pulling a hill or accelerating hard). After the usual troubleshooting exercises, it boiled down to the fitting at the tank. The male, standard flare fitting had been damaged, presumably when removing/replacing the tank at some time in the past, and had a slight dent in the mating surface, causing an air leak. I removed the dip tube, "un-sweated" the fitting and refaced it in a lathe, sweated it back on and drove away smiling.
The biggest clue was when I filled the tank completely (for the first time since purchasing the car) and immediately parked it, awaiting departure for a club cruise event, and left quite a puddle of gasoline in a Wally World parking lot.
F
[quote="Michael Cohen" post=10843]. 1) whenever I let the car sit for a week or so between start-ups, it takes a lot of cranking (15 - 30 seconds) before I can see any fuel coming out of the accelerator pump circuit, .
Michael, I had similar cranking issue when not used for a while so I installed an in-line 6V fuel pump in the engine bay I only use for priming in those instances. I have a push button under the dash to activate it.
If the car has been run a day or two before there is not a need to use. A simple and effective remedy.
Michael,
I had similar issues on another brand of old car.
I chose the same route as Alistair, and it proved to be a good reliable solution.
A year or so after rebuilding the fuel pump, the check valves failed to hold a prime.
The fuel would drain back from the carb and filter and even using the built in fuel primer the car was hard to start.
I installed a "pass through" electric fuel pump near the tank. When the car has been sitting for a few days, pressing the momentary switch under the dash brings fuel to the carb in about 10 seconds.
Once the car starts, the mechanical pump takes over.
Re- rebuilding the old fuel pump would have also been a solution, but the electric pump was a sure thing...and an easy backup.
Rob
Hi Frank - your experience seems very similar; I definitely want to chick all the fittings, then. As for the other suggestions to install an electric fuel pump, I may need to go there eventually, but for now, call me crazy or OCD or a purist, I'm going to see if i can fix what's wrong instead of bypassing the problem. I may end up there in the long run.
I had a similar problem with my 48 Commodore, mainly when going uphill. Along with checking connections at the tank as suggested, check the series of fittings that connect the metal fuel line to the flexible line that goes to the fuel pump. Also, check the pump itself to see if there is any sign of fuel leaks. When I replaced my pump that was leaking fuel from the vent, and tightened some loose fittings, the problem was solved.
Just to help extend this as long as possible, I once had a flex line from frame to pump that would be dry when the engine was running but would slowly become wetted with fuel after shut-down. Air in while running, fuel out when not.
The electric for priming is a nice way to go, especially since most of our cars may not see the road for long periods, but there are functional and safety issues to be considered. That's a subject that has been beaten to death in the past.
F
All the problems for starting after the car sets for a few days is today's gas dries out in 3 to 7days in the carb and leaves VARNISH. An electric pump at the tank is the only way to cure this problem. One other thing, check the pick up tube in the tank as varnish builds up at the end and slows the gas down. Forget the original as this is not in the 50's. Add STA-BIL to your gas tank, just follow directions on the can or plastic bottle and this helps the gas in the tank to keep varnish down. Walt.
TECHRON ??
Thanks to everyone on this subject. I hadn't thought of Sta-Bil as a potential remedy. I will definitely check all the connections and the pick-up tube. Perhaps rebuild the fuel pump myself. Let's see what happens after that. BTW - anyone know where i can get a rebuild kit that can withstand the evil 10% ethanol?
http://www.classicpreservation.com/fuelpumpkits.html
http://then-now-auto.com/fuel-pumps/
Or Dale has them complete at the bottom of the page... http://www.hudsonmotorcarco.com/
I too will need to order a rebuild kit or buy a complete rebuild. Let us know of your experience and how to works out.
Ray
Well - it looks as if one of my problems is not related to one, and possibly both of the other two. I solved my air-in-the-glass-fuel-filter-bowl problem yesterday morning; I replaced the rubber fuel hose that goes between the steel fuel line and the inlet of the fuel pump. While i was at it, I put some heavy duty natural gas grade Teflon tape (yellow) on the fitting that goes into the fuel pump. I was so happy to see the car idle and race without a single bubble going into the filter. I have no idea if that also fixed the problem of losing the prime, but should know in a week or so. Unfortunately, I took the car for a test drive and the occasional miss, like it's running out of gas for a fraction of a second, is still there. One thing I did notice is that when the problem occurs, I can make it go away just by stepping down more on the accelerator. Maybe there's a dirty circuit in my (freshly rebuilt) carburetor? Two steps forward and one step back.
You will still have the gas dry out in the carb after 3 days no mater what you do. It's a problem with todays gas. An electric pump at the tank is the only way you will start your engine after it sets 3 or longer days. Put it on a switch turn it on and wait 2 or 3 minutes, hit the gas pedal and it will start right up. Once running, shut the switch. It could mean your float is to low. Walt.
