Hey all...
This will be long and kinda complicated but I will try to go in bits to explain it all. The car which is a '51 Hornet Sedan with twin H has a '56 308 with hydraulic lifters under the hood.
It has not been on the road nor really "run" since 1979.
When I first got the car folks advised that it might be stuck rings and to put some oil down the cylinder and let it lubricate and help the rings break out. I did so and compression seemed to have returned. After a few months and a few attempts to get the darn thing started I threw the compression tester back on and got these readings.
C1 = 115 lbs
C2 = 92
C3 = 21
C4 = 47
C5 = 114
C6 = 95
Obviously something is not right. Thought head gasket, rings, valves?
I pulled the valve cover off and everything seemed to be traveling up and down... but hydraulic lifters were a new sight for me.
It was then time to head to the Crank Up meet at Wildrick's. I got some good insight, tips, and things to look for.
Here is my report.
Upon looking closely at the hydraulic lifters, something seemed to a miss on two of them. One seemed to be missing a spring, and the other seemed squished. More on that in a lil bit.
I then pulled the head. A previous "owner/mechanic" had used form-a-gasket under the bolt heads and around the water return goose neck and in areas on the actual head gasket. The bolts came out without incident, but upon removing the head I found a number of potential problems.
Cylinder 6 had an exhaust valve replaced in its past. The intake valve and surrounding area was pitted.
Cylinder 5 had an intake valve replaced in the past and exhibited water damage extending from the gasket line nearest it.
Cylinder 4 had an oil sheen on the surfaces and exhibited some carbon build up/pits. Oil on the head on the exhaust side near the spark hole.
Cylinder 3.... oil everywhere including on the head itself. Exhaust valve had obviously lost its keeper as I was able to grab it and pull it out. The valve guides were still intact and the valve was not bent. This valve corresponds to the lifter that seemed squished.
Cylinder 2 has some rust that seemed to come from the side closest to the intake valve. This corresponded to obvious water trails on the head.
Cylinder 1... kinda boring compared to the rest.
No obvious damage to the head gasket at all. In fact to my laymans eyes it looks to not have properly installed or torqued down. Seemed to be seepage of water and oil between areas not through areas but between the gasket and surfaces.
So the obvious.... I need a new head gasket and for it to be installed CORRECTLY. I need new head bolts (1/2") and to ream the holes before installing. This much I know.
Now for what I do not.
1. Obviously the exhaust valve on C3 needs a keeper or more. In the correct manual there is hardly any info. Anyone with some insight?
2. The hydraulic lifter on the intake of C5 seems to be missing the small spring? Is this necessary?
3, Do the valves look like they need to be replaced?
4. Do I need to clean the rust and all from the inside of the head / around the valve seats? If so how do I do this without roasting everything?
5. What am I missing? Assume I am dumb and point out what I have missed. No hard feelings because this is how you learn.
If you need clarifying pictures or have questions please ask.... I need all the Hudson expert help I can get. 🙂
Ray
Cylinder 6
Cylinder 5
Cylinder 6
Cylinder 5
Cylinder 4
Cylinder 3
Cylinder 3 Valve Cover
Cylinder 2
If some mods could clean up everything I screwed up.... thanks 🙂
Hi Ray,
Removed the posts that didn't work for you ; looks good (from a posting point of view of course!) to me now
Ray, you can probably do a "complete" valve grind, guides,valves,pull all the springs and retainers, pull the timing cover, pull the cam out, pull all the lifters and replace the lifters, pulling the cam out is easily done, with all the valves, springs and retainers removed, put a clothes line clip on each lifter to hold it up while removing the cam, remove all the lifters, replace with new ones. While all of the lifters are out, replace all the valve guides,grind all the seats, re-assemble everything, and your motor will probably be like new. I think you met Jeff Perkins when you were here. He is the very best ! I know this might sound difficult, but it is more time consuming than difficult ! Did you pull the pan down yet?. It will also give a little more information about the engine. Look at the oil pump drive gear, look to see how much sludge is up in the webbing of the block, another tell-tell sign of condition/use/maintenence. Since it is a 55-56 engine, you really don't know how many miles are on it ?? I hope this further getting it back on the road quicker! D
The "squished" hydraulic lifter is collapsed....usually due to dirt getting under the check valve and holding it open allowing the plunger to "bleed down". The valve that had no keepers was getting "HAMMERED" by the lifter, and this probably broke the plunger spring. Yes, you do need the plunger spring. The hydraulic lifters in the 1956 blocks are vulnerable to dirt due to the fact these older motors do not have full flow oil filtration. If the oil was changed frequently, the hydraulic lifters had better chances of avoiding collapse. If you decide to do a valve job and have new mechanical lifters installed, then you will need to replace the "zero lash" hydraulic cam with a mechanical cam. Doug W can tell you more.
Just throwing my two bits worth in here, but there is a Full Flow Filtration Conversion available That may be of interest to you if you plan to retain the hydraulic lifter mechanism. I don't know that it's convertible to a solid lifter set-up. I'm sure someone else knows......I should!
Have a look at www.vintagefullflow.com
Frank
OOPs....I see that it was just explained in the previous post.
F
Frank
I looked at www.vintagefullflow.com, it does not have any pictures or price information.
Lee O'Dell.
Lee,
Hmmmmm. Did you go to the "Gallery" page?
I admit that the site needs a serious overhaul. It's my work and I'm obviously not a computer geek but, unless something has gone wrong, you should be able to view the gallery and/or go to the "Contact us" page to email me directly for additional info/pricing or ask me anything about the project.
Frank
Just as an independent check I went to the site and could see pictures on the Gallery Page and the Contact page pulled up information as well
Thanks for running that check. I figured it was OK......at least as OK as it ever was.
Frank
Leave a reply
