Here's an update: WE HAVE IGNITION!
Compression, fuel, spark and, timing were good, but no start; here's what was wrong:
With the flywheel set to the TDC mark, the first cylinder was not on TDC. I ignored the mark and found something close to TDC just by slowly advancing the flywheel and the feeling when the compression stroke had occurred with my finger on the spark plug hole. After doing that It was clear that the TDC mark was in the wrong place. I checked the position of the rotor, set the spark plug wires accordingly, and it roared to life, first time since last November. Yeah baby!
Now with all the new ignition parts, and the Optima battery, it starts right up fast, and really wants to run. Now that it runs I can start fixing everything else that's amiss. Thanks again for everyone's help.
That's disconcerting!
You follow all the standard rules for troubleshooting and it leads nowhere. Then you discover that someone, at some point, installed the flywheel incorrectly. So all the basic assumptions you were working with, were erroneous. Not really fair.
How can you install the flywheel incorrectly? The bolt spacing prevents that.
Well, that's what I thought. I also thought Hudson's were set up with #6 at TDC. My guess is that if you hook timing up to #6 wire, the lines on the flywheel will come into view. If I'm wrong, I"m sure I'll be corrected.
Yes, Flywheel only goes on one way. Either the distributor was pulled and put back in one tooth off, or the plug wires were off
Russell, (don't forget this is an 8-cyl car) it's true that both 1 and 8 are at TDC, but one's on the exhaust stroke and the other's on the power stroke, and the valve timing is such that #1 is at TDC on the power stroke when the flywheel TDC mark is visible.
I thought that maybe the distributor was reinstalled one tooth off at some point - however, this would not change the fact that cylinder one is not at TDC when the flywheel is at the TDC mark.
I mentioned that I found TDC by feel. Is there any other way to find TDC without relying on the mark on the flywheel? You can't put a dowel in the sparkplug opening on the 8 cylinder engine because the cylinder is offset. Any ideas?
One other question - I will be replacing the fuel pump next weekend. The Mechanical Procedures Manual suggests you do this from the top, after removing the coil to make some room. Seems like I'll need very long arms to do it this way. Is this the right way to do it?
I'm afraid I'm confused at this point.
So, apparently, it is impossible to install the flywheel incorrectly, is that correct? (Never did it so I didn't know).
And Josh seems to be saying that on the compression stroke, #1 piston has not yet reached the top of its travel when the pointer on the flywheel points to TDC ?). And the evidence for this is that air is still coming out of the spark plug hole (as you rotate the crankshaft) at the TDC mark on the flywheel? (Or, the piston's already reached the top of its stroke and is starting to go down.) Correct?
Is it possible that we have a faulty timing gear here? One of those fiber gears whose hub (famously) breaks loose from the perimeter of the gear, and does so in such a way that the camshaft is sometimes out of sync with the crankshaft and (when the separated parts of the timing gear slip and go back to normal) sometimes in sync? This might account for the exhaust / intake valves beginning to open or close before or after they're supposed to. Which would mean that the "pressure test" (your finger over the open spark plug hole) would falsely indicate the position of the piston at the TDC mark.
Probably, the answer is much simpler. And I'll be fascinated to discover what it really is!
Jon, the Eights from mid-46 have the aluminum timing gears, and many of the early '46s were retrofitted with a special kit provided to dealers.
While there may be some crazy ways that the crank-flywheel relationship can be messed up, we've gotta' remember that the car ran OK last summer season. As the King said . . . "Is ... a ... puzzlement!"
Park, not to hijack the conversation, but did the aluminum timing gears fit the sixes as well? Would [u]all[/u] aluminum gears retro-fit both the six and eight splashers back to the mid thirties? (Of course, assuming that one had the matching crankshaft gear. And assuming you machined the web to clear the engine mounting plate bolts.) Or were there variations in the aluminum gears? Sometimes you see these gear sets for sale and are hesitant to buy them if you don't know what they fit.
Just for clarification, the #1 piston was well past TDC by the time it reached the flywheel mark. It would take about 4-5 quick hits of the button to get to the mark.
Josh, Just for curiosity, the earlier (pre 1953 ) flywheels were marked for both 6 0r 8 cyl. Is it possible you had a flywheel fitted from the later years where no 8 cyl marks appeared?? Just a thought.
"Ric"
Jon . . . yes, back through '36 with the mods you mentioned. Did it to mine. Also applies a bit further back if you change the timing cover to '36 or later (earlier gears were thinner). For example, David Horsley has them in his '34H8.
Ric - The flywheel mark is "U.D.C. 1-8". The car was manufactured in June 1948, and the Mechanical Procedures supplement said the marks were changed to "U.D.C.1" for both the 6 and 8 cylinder engines after April 21, 1949.
