B) I talked with the mechanic who changed the chain and we realized it was nearly six years ago, so the car ran well for a few years and therefore the chain was not installed improperly.

Tom, I have never had the valves adjusted in the 35 years I've owned the car. The mechanic and I have decided that the adjustment is primary. Not being very mechanically inclined or knowledgeable it never occurred to me to have the valves adjusted. That seems to be the most likely thing to tend to, certainly before getting into anything more deep and complicated.

Walt, I thank you for the figures for adjustment.

Geoff Blake

Just make sure your engine is cold. After it sets overnight is when you do the valve adjustment first thing. To set for each cylinder that is at top dead center, get an old distributor cap, cut the top off, and before you remove the cap take notice where Number one wire goes to. Now install the cut cap and turn engine by hand, spark plugs must be removed, and have rotor dead center on # 1 hole. Adjust valves,int .014 exh .017 then turn engine through firing order, rotor goes clock wise, 1-5-3-6-2-4. Valves run from front, exh-int-exh-int-int-exh-exh-int-int-exh-int-exh. Make sure you use new feeler gauges not ones that were used to set valve with engine running, pounded out of shape. Walt.

B) Thank you Walt, I will note that information and use it for the adjustment. It may be a few weeks before I can fund the work, but I will let all know when the work is done.

Geoff Blake

If you adjust the ignition timing with a timing light, you must disconnect the vacuum advance first. If the advance is working and you do not disconnect, you will be way off.

When my timing light went out, I used an old snapon vacuum gauge to set it and now I use it all the time. I like it better than the timing light.
Block off the vacuum line to the distributor and then find a manifold port to run the gauge from. Crank up and read the gauge. Adjust accordingly.
Just finished doing this with a 58 Packard Hawk.

You may have just found your own problem. If you get anywhere near correct with a vacuum gauge it is a miracle. Take it from an old timer who has been doing this for 60 years.

I've been using a timing light since at least 1969.
Thanks,but I'll stick with what's been working for me, the vacuum guage!
( The 58 PH purrs like a kitten and runs like a tiger now!)

I guess the question is.. What degree of advance is correct. If one is trying to set a specific advance as given in the factory specifications.. A timing light is required. That specification is general setting that will "work" at most all elevations, air temperature, Humidity, etc. To tune a specific engine with the conditions that are present at the time. For instance, Denver in deep winter or Miami in the heat of summer.... A vacuum gauge will optimize the timing. Not to mention the much different fuel we have now ! It would be interesting to set an engine with a vacuum gauge , then check the timing light reading. I suspect that not many engines will reflect the "ballpark" factory spec. Also note that most manuals will tell you to road test and adjust timing under load after the initial setting.

David's summary is right on. I follow the advice from Tom McCahill, who for years wrote a column in Mechanix Illustrated magazine, to get a ballpark setting:

With the car warmed up and idling slowly, loosen the 7/16 screw that anchors the distributor enough so you can turn the distributor fairly easily by hand. Turn the distributor back and forth until you determine the position where the idling is fastest. Then very slowly turn it in the direction of retarded timing (clockwise in the case of this engine) until the idling is slightly slower. Tighten the anchor screw.

Then drive the car very slowly in 3rd gear, and apply a lot of gas. The engine should ping a little bit while turning slowly, but the pinging should disappear as you speed up. It can sometimes be hard to find a place to do this. I look for a quiet street where there is a wall on the driver's side to reflect the sound. If it pings too much, the distributor has to be turned a little bit more (clockwise) to retard it a little. If it doesn't ping at all, turn the distributor a little bit (counterclockwise) to advance it a little. Finally, turn the car off and start it. If it "fights" the starter, it has to be retarded a little.

If course, this is a very general procedure, and may not give the best possible result, considering all the variables David mentions.

If the vacuum advance doesn't work, the timing will not advance as it should at partial throttle positions.

If the centrifugal timing advance is very worn, and not advancing the engine enough as the engine speed increases, it will run well, but not be as strong as it should be. This was the situation with my '35 8 (which is not equipped with a vacuum advance, so it depends entirely on the centrifugal advance) because the springs were weak and the pivots worn in the centrifugal advance. I solved it by getting a distributor where these parts were in good condition.

:cheer: I wrote last that I would let all of you know how things worked out after having the valves adjusted. Well I had them done yesterday and I picked up the car this afternoon. The mechanic said that he found all the clearances very tight and he had to back the adjusters off one full turn. He had expected them to be loose. He double gauged all the lifters just to be sure. Walt, I copied down the instructions you wrote here and gave them to him.
I didn't get a chance to go to my test hill today, but the six mile drive back to storage made it clear how much better it runs, just like in the old days. It pulls away smoothly and with gusto in third gear. And, Per, as you had mentioned about your thirty-seven with valves unadjusted, the Pacemaker no longer chugs and bucks when down to slow speed in third. Very smooth and the stalling problem I had at stops is gone . I noticed when first listening to the car at the garage that it idles so quietly and there is none of the sputtering and lumpiness that was in the idle before.
I am absolutely ecstatic with the way it runs now and I am very sure it should take the test hill well. I will take it there later this week to be sure.
I want to thank all who helped figure this out. Tom Brintnall, I haven't had the gas tank cleaned out yet, but I haven't been able to find anyone locally who does that anymore. When I do, I'll have it done.
Hudsonly to one and all, Geoff Blake

That is the only way to set valves today. I drive my car across this country, ocean to ocean up to speeds 90 when the coast is clear and have 143,000 on the engine since rebuilt. For this trip I set my valves cold, 20 and 20. When back home I reset them back to 14 and 17 with a cold engine. Just watch your timing. Walt.

Can't do all this with Clifford headers !!

That is the only thing wrong with headers on a street running car. Valves must be adjusted every 5,000 miles in the old days, but today with our new style gas, junk, they have to be done more often or there goes a valve. Walt.

I have the hydraulic lifters on my 308. I think someone should look into having these lifters reproduced for the 232-262-308 motors. They work fine on a street / highway driven car, but I don't recommend them for racing. The exhaust valve seats gradually recess on the Hudson blocks over time when running on modern gas. Not as bad as iron block motors of the same vintage, but I do see the recession, widening of the ex valve seats. Intakes wear very little compared to the exhausts. If one were to use one of those full flow oil filtering kits being developed for the 232-262-308 motors, then the hydraulic lifters should be very reliable. Otherwise, frequent oil changes in the hydraulic lifter equipped 308's is advisable.

Geoff,

I'm glad that the problem is solved!

Kenneth, thanks for the information about the receding of the valve seats being a common thing when old cars are driven a lot.